Query on Schiehallion cave name and nearby Loch Lyon | Toponymy | Forum

Dear List Subscribers:

In Perthshire, near Schiehallion, is a cave called Uamh Tom a'Mhor Fir. I find this rendered as Cave of the Hillock of the Great Man, which given the description of the place would appear to be correct.

However, I am troubled by the Mhor Fir component. We do have place-names in Highland Scotland featuring "great man", but this take the more usual form Fir Mhor. For example, Eas an Fhir Mhoir. There is a legend that this cave is the entrance to the fairy kingdom, and the great man or giant is supposedly one of these supernatural beings. On nearby Rannoch Moor we find a supernatural entity called An Duine Mor, 'The Great Man', who saves people lost of the moorland.

I had wondered if Mhor Fir/Fhir might be an error for 'Mayor', but it so we would still have the same problem: it should be Fir Moer, not the other way around.

HOWEVER... I do note that in some other place-names the usual order is reversed. For example, Moredun Top on Moncreiffe Hill is 'Great Fort', which one would expect to be Dunmore (and, indeed, there are several Dunmores). According to Ranko Matasovic (with whom I've have some correspondence regarding the truly ancient names), the earlier British form of such names or places would yield Moredun rather than Dunmore. So perhaps the formation Mhor Fir in the Schiehallion name preserves an earlier form of Gaelic?

I suppose Mhor Fir could (?) be a corruption of Gaelic mormaer:

http://edil.qub.ac.uk/dictiona.....;option3a=

Hamp (Eric P.): Scottish Gaelic morair.
In ScoGS 14/2 (1986), pp. 138–141.
ad K. H. Jackson, The Gaelic notes in the Book of Deer, 1972, pp. 102-109. Further to the phonetic and lexico-syntactic aspects of the derivation of ScG morair from Pictish *mōr+maer.

However, if so, how to get from Mormaer to Mhor Fir?

I do find this:

The Rev Robert MacDonald published his Statistical Account for Scotland in 1845. In it he wrote of a “remarkable cave … called Tom-a-mhorair [which is believed to be] full of chambers or separate apartments, and that, as soon as a person advances a few yards, he comes to a door, which, the moment he enters, closes, as it opened, of its own accord, and prevents his returning.”

Similarly in "Rambles in Breadalbane" (1891), the author, Ferguson remarks: "It is said that there are a long series of mysterious caves, extending from one side of the mountain to the other." And also there is this quote from "A Highland Parish or the History of Fortingall" (1928) by Alexander Stewart:"Of all the caves in the Parish, the most remarkable is that at Tom a Mhorair, on the south side of Glenmore, near the west shoulder of Schiehallion.

If these are the earliest references to the cave, and mhorair is correct, then we could have mor(m)aer = mhorair. Alas, I do not have access to sources which would give all the early attestations for this cave name.

So, is this name properly mormaer? Or mor fir? Was mor fir merely a substitute for the former?

I much appreciate any help you can offer.

Thank you, best wishes, and respectfully,

Daniel Hunt

P.S. What is the best recent guess for a derivation of the Lyon name in Loch Lyon? I am thinking this must be *lim- 'marsh', from the root *lei- 'to pour, flow', as discussed in Rivet and Smith under their entry for Lemana. But I keep finding fanciful derivations, doubtless inspired by neopagans, to this name being derived from the dog name Lugh. Probably because Lyon in France in from Lugdunum!